billy
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Posts: 5
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Feb 17, 2006 22:27:49 GMT -5
Post by billy on Feb 17, 2006 22:27:49 GMT -5
every time someone tells me 'anarchy will never work, people are too nasty,' it makes me angry. it makes me angry because the majority of human history has been (gasp) without government! The first humans made their appearance around 3 million years ago. Government, on the other hand, has only been around for between 5000 and 10000 years. And government was not the predominate social organization for people on earth until about 500 years ago, when explorers from europe "discovered" lots of "new" lands.
not to mention the fact that anarchy has been tried successfully by lots of people ever since, and still exists.
spain during the spanish civil war. the ukraine during the russian revolution. iceland in the middle ages. and right now, the bedouins of the middle east and the city of christiana, denmark.
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Feb 18, 2006 2:32:35 GMT -5
Post by Robin Banks on Feb 18, 2006 2:32:35 GMT -5
it's so true. and it's happening right now. every time you do something without being told to.
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May 22, 2006 12:19:46 GMT -5
Post by thecause on May 22, 2006 12:19:46 GMT -5
<a href="http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2004/04/somalia_and_the.html">don't forget the anarchy of Somalia.</a>
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goose
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Posts: 7
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Post by goose on Aug 9, 2006 4:13:24 GMT -5
i like when people say "there would be so many murders" as if there arent "so many murders" right now. (when infact the culture of this system is was causes all these murders)
That makes me laugh.
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Jesse of the Justice League
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Jul 17, 2007 1:43:03 GMT -5
Post by Jesse of the Justice League on Jul 17, 2007 1:43:03 GMT -5
In order to live, we need food, shelter, and other basic things. Key word: "things." People need, and often want regardless of need, things. People will KILL to acquire those things. Now this thing could be, oh i don't know, some oatmeal. I like oatmeal, it fills me up, makes me feel good, and more importantly, keeps me alive. Now, I'll give you what I got to give, but when it comes to life or death? i say "GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY OATMEAL BITCH ASS NIGGA!!!" from there? conflict. I kill you, and believe you me I'd do it, then your pal decides he misses you really bad, finds me and does me in. From there a chain reaction. people killing people, all out of vengence[and all over oatmeal.] then your friends organize, first small "gangs," i suppose, and then armies. While this is going on, my friends are doing the same. Then you have all out war.
Now, since I am a shitty planner I ask that you assume I mentioned that this all takes place in an anarchist state of humanity, on a large scale, say, the U.S.? and that since the system of rule has been one of such order you must also know that about, I'd guess, 85-98.5 percent of the U.S. population don't know shit about farming or REALLY surviving in general. The result? food shortage, mass starvation, no water, no real shelter, no health care, no safety. People of todays society are truly weak. No one knows shit about fuck and it is truly sad. In fact, the only people that would, especially in large urban environments, are all the people who would kill and rape. The drug addicts willing to do anything for a fix. The people of the dirt and shadows. They are, though sadly so, the fittest, the srongest, and the best at surviving. and only because of the way society reacted to their crimes. They've learned how to lay low, eat when they can, sleep when they can, and all the while wait ever so patiently for the next opporotunity.
You are right goose, these people have always been around and have alway been called predators. They are strong and adept at success in their own right. They feed on the weak. The majority of society is weak. So, the majority become prey. Like fish in a tank, bound by their own ignorance and caught without effort. Eaten and then forgotten.
SOOOOOOO...... Back to the fore mentioned scenario. I killed you remember? now we have war. No war without organization. [so there goes your anarchy.] Now, in order for any conflict of any kind to occur, you must have two sides, i.e. you and me, and each of those sides in order to conflict with each other must have definate but opposing values or opinions, i.e. You wanted the oatmeal instead of me and vice versa. So, one side has ideals and views, usually the same only inverted, as does the other. Now remember, this is an anarchist state. People are hungry, tired, sick, and by now utterly and completely hopeless. They need purpose. so some find your propaganda more appealing than mine and join your force. Some join mine. People start to realize that hungry soldiers are dead soldiers. so they farm. then they decide that soldiers out in the open are dead soldiers so they create shelter. and of course you can't fight without weaponry. so BAM! industry is reborn.
Now every good war needs a front line. So the country divides. Your side and ours. and every good army needs a name. so you decide to be the I.O.R.W.I. [is oatmeal really worth it?] side and think of a name for your side of the land shall we say Fucktopia.
and we get our own names too. Fun right? lets call us the F.I.A.O.[food is all ours] stoopid right? anyway. both want to win. Both want to be superior, as I believe is the nature of all living things. And on both sides leaders are convincing the tired, poor, weak, sick, and hungry can all be rested, wealthy, srong, healthy, and fed IF ONLY YOU OBEY. so they do. SHIT, I would. [ I like food ]
fighting continues. both sides grow into self sufficient communities or? countries. so then the people, as they do, get tired of war and death and destruction. Both sides call an armistice. Truce. now we have TWO countries both organized.
I love the idea of anarchy, of true and real freedom. but, I don't think that it can work. Billy mentioned that government has only existed about 5-10 thousand years?
well the oldest written language known has been dated to be about 5400 years old. I don't think that it is coincidence. I think that over the first couple million years of our existence as a species, we were VERY VERY VERY STOOPID. to say the least. and governement, along with written word and the knowledge of the world that you and I posess, came as a direct result of evolving into true intellectual beings. so i think it can be said, that by using language with boundries and limits, rooted to the time when government and order arose you are in fact adhering to the order of another person. By writing and thinking, especially in correspondance with others, friend or foe, you are failing yourself and your cause.
THE POINT: Anarchy will not work. I think that it CAN but only in small, isolated instances. The only way it can work is through communication, and I don't think that someone 2 thousand miles away is really going to give a shit about me or my beliefs. SMALL NUBERS WORK large ones don't.
P.S. I am sorry that it took so long, as I was writing I got new ideas, and the thoughts flowed. Beautiful really, what the mind can do. Anyway, I don't claim that this WOULD happen only that it MIGHT and is HIGHLY LIKELY. I also don't claim to know people that well and I make no guarantees. I am simply an observer of many angles and this I feel is the truth. However, I DO NOT claim to KNOW the truth. That's for the cosmos. Not me...
I only feel that your faith in humanity is wrongly placed. I've lived with the strong ones of which I spoke, also the weak. I've stepped into the shoes and roles and lives of both. And I've shared with you what I've learned. what I have described is most definately worst case scenario. Please, make no judgement other than your own. Hell, it might actually and I'll go down in history for being the most ignorant man of all. I don't think so. But I truly hope it does. In the mean time, if taking it from the man means food, shelter, and peace for so many people, I will gladly drop trow and bend over.
I love you all, for you are all my brothers.
-Jesse-
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